The Army of Mary and Our Lady of all Nations

Richard Salbato 9-25-2007

By now eveyone has read that the Vatican has excommunicated the members of The Army of Mary, followers of the seer, Marie Paule Giguere.  There is no reason for me to repeat this news as everyone knows about it by now and it is even posted on Medjugorje web sites. I desided to add my two cents to this because of what people are failing to see in all this.

I became involved it this group back in 1975, when friends of mine sent their children to live with this group. Marie Giguere founded the Army of Mary as a prayer group in 1971 and was approved by the bishop in 1975. At first it was just a retreat center for people to go and pray, and everything seemed Godly and Catholic. It was even supported by a priest from the Vatican as you will see at the bottom of this newsletter. What Giguere did not tell people at the time was that she was having “Messages from Heaven” all the way back to the mid 1950s. 

The faith these people put into this woman for many years gave the outward signs of holiness and moral lives but the damage done to them many years later may never be corrected. Those I know of have left the Church, no longer believe in God, and have married and divorced, fallen into drugs and even attempted suiside. What is interesting here is that at first the Bishop approved the group and for years it seemed holy.

Way back in the mid 1970s I was also personally involved with Francis Klug of Saint Joseph’s Hill of Hope in Los Angeles and the Charismatic Movement.  Both seemed holy and Catholic at the time but after years of investigation proved to be demonic to me.  Francis Klug eventually showed her true face when she declaired that Saint Joseph was the Holy Spirit.  Testing her face to face, I asked her what she would do if the Church told her to stop her apparition sessions.  Her eyes turned demonic and she said, “Not even the Pope will stop this appariton.”  I also saw the Charismatic Movement to be anti-Catholic when the leading priest told me to attend Protestant Charismatic prayer groups, which I did and they were very anti-Catholic.

Many years after the bishop first approved the Army of Mary prayer group, he condemned it. But this did not stop Giguere, she started ordaining her own priests and just keep on claiming to be a direct messenger of God.  In time she even went so far as to claim to be the reincarnation of the Virgin Mary. 

What is bizarre to me is that Catholics and even Catholic priests believe these lies.  Even the very concept of reincarnation is a heresy against the teaching of Christ and the Church.  Reincarnation of the Virgin Mary is blasphemy against Our Lady, the worst blasphemy demons can possibly do.  Not new, however, because their was a woman in Portugal, not far from Fatima, who also claimed to be the reincarnation of the Virgin Mary and even after her death holes a large following including many ex-priests. 

But the biggest reason for me writing this Newsletter will be shown at the bottom of this article, her connection to another false apparition, Our Lady of All Nations. First learn more about The Army of Mary if you have not already read it. 

Vatican excommunicates members of a Quebec Catholic movement


In a judgment delivered to the group on Monday, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith ruled that the ordinations of six priests in the Army of Mary this past June were illegitimate, because they were performed by a priest rather than a bishop. As a result, at least one recent marriage, performed by one of these new priests, is now regarded by the Vatican as null.

Calling it a "very grave situation," the Vatican has excommunicated members of a controversial Quebec Catholic movement, the Army of Mary, for their heretical beliefs that derive from the writings of Marie-Paule Gigučre, an 86-year-old mystic who claims to be a reincarnation of the Virgin Mary.

Further, the ruling says that anyone who participates in the Army of Mary, which has centres in Quebec City and Lac-Etchemin, Que., is in schism with the Catholic Church, and therefore automatically excommunicated.

The group has been in conflict with the Vatican for at least 20 years - its members claim to be fully Catholic, but with extra beliefs - and so it received the ruling with equanimity, calling it the "will of God."

"In 1958, our foundress received from above, heard from above that she would be crucified by priests and bishops. It's only the realization today of such a message," said Father Eric Roy, Superior General of the Sons of Mary and a leading figure in the group. "We cannot go against our conscience."

Founded as a prayer group in 1971, and recognized by the Archbishop of Quebec four years later, the Army of Mary has been a headache for Canadian Catholic bishops ever since.

In her writings, Mme. Gigučre described visions and messages she received from God, explaining that Mary, the mother of Jesus, is fully divine, and also that, as her modern incarnation, so is Mme. Gigučre. Rather than the traditional Catholic Trinity - in which God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are each fully divine and part of a three-part deity - the Army of Mary now speaks of a "quinternity," including Mary and Mme. Gigučre.

This reverence of the charismatic Mme. Gigučre, and the inevitable comparisons to Joan of Arc and Teresa of Avila, helped it to spread beyond Quebec, with missions across Canada and in France, the United States, Austria, Jamaica and Italy. At one time it claimed 20,000 members, but that number is now far lower, although Fr. Roy would not estimate.

"There was always this suspicion that was around them, that they were doing something on the side, you know, teaching other things. It was always hard to tie them down, and I just tried to get them to come out and admit things," said Terrence Prendergast, Archbishop of Ottawa, who was appointed in 2003 by Pope John Paul II to be a mediator in the dispute.

"They would say that they would not subscribe to some of the limitations that we would put on the creed.

"They would say we hold everything that the Roman Catholic Church teaches, and then some things that the Church is not yet ready for," he said.

Yesterday, he criticized the belief that God has somehow willed their excommunication, which he called "victim theology."

"It's one of those ironies that they have been waiting for this and hoping for it. And probably their foundress has predicted it [but] I would have to find out after the fact, because that's usually when we find out that she's predicted something," he said. After 9/11, for example, she claimed to have envisioned the falling towers several years previously.

"The Church has been very patient with them. I've been very patient with them," Archbishop Prendergast said. "It's a kind of cult. I think they are very much under the sway of the foundress. Whatever she says counts for more important than what the Pope says."

Archbishop Prendergast's predecessor, Bishop Gilles Cazabon, had tried for five years to resolve the schism and made little progress.

In fact, until this week, things stood pretty much as they were 20 years ago, when in 1987 the late Cardinal Louis-Albert Vachon revoked the Army of Mary's status as a Catholic organization, which was meant as a warning of future excommunication. In 1999, Bishop Cazabon was appointed as Pontifical Commissioner, a sort of Papal envoy, but things remained stalled until 2001, when the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops issued a doctrinal note in 2001 stating that the Army of Mary is not a "Catholic association."

Since then, Archbishop Prendergast said, the group's status has fallen among mainstream Catholics, and so the trend among Army of Mary devotees outside of Quebec has been to either recant their heretical beliefs and become fully Catholic, or to return to Quebec.

Things came to a crisis this June, however, when a leading Army of Mary priest called Father Jean-Pierre Mastropietro ordained six new priests, including a father and son. Under canon law, only a bishop can ordain priests.

"He simply accepted Marie-Paule Gigučre's idea that you are now appointed to be Father John of the Church of John," Archbishop Prendergast said. "He calls the Church of Rome the 'Church of Peter' [Peter was the first pope and one of Jesus' 12 apostles]. And the Church of Peter, which is the Church of Authority I guess, is being 'transmutated' - that's the term they use - into the Church of John, the Church of Love. And that's where, of course, the Catholic Church can't agree."

He said he regrets the failure of the efforts at reconciliation, because most of the Army of Mary's priests - there are 39 at the Lac-Etchemin centre, for example, in addition to brothers and sisters of the order - are legitimately ordained, one even by the late Pope John Paul II.

But now that Fr. Mastropietro is wearing a Byzantine crown and "acting like a pope" himself, the final line has been crossed.

"I did my very best with these men," Archbishop Prendergast said.  

"I like them. I would like them to be Catholic priests. We need Catholic priests, but we have to have Catholic priests who obey what the bishops say ... [But] once you decide Heaven can tell you what to do, it can tell you all kinds of things that go beyond the boundaries."


Ida Peerdeman declares Giguere Reincarnation of Mary


The relationship of this false seer Marie Paule Giguere, to previously condemned seer Ida Peerdeman of Our Lady of All Nations, who is supported and propagated by Mark Miravalle in his campaign for a Co-redemtrix dogma, is shown below. 

See Mark Miravalle website for his numerous articles on “Our Lady of All Nations and her supposed request for a 5th  Dogma” (Coredemptrix, Advocate, Mediatrix)…

Interestingly enough, false seer Marie-Paule Gigučre was supported by the popular but “unapproved” seer Ida Peerdeman of Our Lady of All Nations, whose case has been greatly confused by Bishop Punt.  After being prohibited by several previous Bishop’s, current Bishop Punt recently approved a prayer and devotion to Our Lady of All Nations resulting from the alleged apparitions of seer Ida Peerdeman

It is also interesting to note that “Our Lady of All Nations via alleged seer Ida Peerdeman”, is supported heavily by Mark Miravalle since she is the seer source of for his unending campaign for Vatican declaration for a Marian dogma of Co-Redeemer, the Mediator, the Advocate…  Below is part of the objections to Bishop Punt’s confusing approval of Our Lady of Our Nations… 



 B. Ida Peerdeman had her own contact person in the Vatican, namely the Dutch priest, Mgr. Van Lierde who, for a long time had officiated as the Pope's sexton. This Mgr. Van Lierde was well known for his contacts with a number of alleged "seers." He even entered into a mystical marriage with the Canadian Marie-Paule Gigučre, who founded "Mary's Army" after she had left "The Legion of Mary". Her movement was forbidden by the Canadian Bishops' conference in 1987. At the same time the DEVOTION and the PRAYER of the "LADY OF ALL NATIONS" WAS FORBIDDEN (cf. Canon 839, par. 2).

In an enthusiastic letter to Mgr. Van Lierde, Ida Peerdeman wrote about this FALSE seer Marie-Paule:

"Who is this woman? A second Catherine of Siena? A second Joan of Arc? Does Church history already know someone like her? We think she is unique. I even go as far as to assert that she is the INCARNATION of the Holy Virgin Mary. In an extraordinary way she is the Co-Redeemer, the Mediator, the Advocate, the Lady of all Nations."

So WHO is Marie-Paule Gigučre in fact? Answer: a divorced woman with five children who concocted 6.000 pages of "messages". A few examples of her "Messages of Jesus":

"You are a Doctor of the Church" (book 7 p.155); "You will be the first person to be canonized during her life" (book I p.199); "You are another Mary" (book 14 p.78); "You are Co-Redeemer," (book 13 p.76); "I will make you a priest" (book II p.227); "Your son Peter will be the great pope of peace" (book I p.327). In book 13 p. 46, Mgr. Van Lierde is even offered the papacy, which he "humbly" accepts. And in book 8, p.39, Jesus says about Marie-Paule: "Whoever kisses your photo will be instantaneously cured". In book 7, p.348, Marie-Paule say about herself:" I shall crush the serpent's head"!!! Absolutely mad!

So nobody will be surprised to hear it is THROUGH Mgr. Van Lierde's intercession that "Mary's Army" was first officially recognized in 1975 by a canonical decree of the Archbishop Roy of Quebec. Happily his successor, Bishop Vachon DISSOLVED and FORBADE this community, but only after a period of twelve years.

CONCLUSION. What can we say about bishop Punt's strange recognition of Amsterdam? Will it also take twelve years before common sense gets the upper hand again in our chaotic Catholic Church?